Mutations favoring extinction over intelligence

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humon
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Re: Mutations favoring extinction over intelligence

Post by humon » Sat Dec 23, 2017 2:04 pm

Alast wrote:Asking for radiation not to kill is simply not realistic. Just let radiation be what it is.
Though radiation does need changes, a stereocyte without the ability to emit any form of substance isn't a stereocyte but quite literally a normal cell with no ability whatsoever. I find it fairly crucial that cells like stereocytes have their programmation randomised from the go instead of being empty like a photocyte in a sunless substrate.
Similarly to this, cells which react to substances should also have the A B variables present as programmable from the get go, so the chances of a flagellocyte increasing in speed is equal to it increasing in reaction size to substances.
-First experiment of the Aspiring Apprentice-
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The substrate being well lit,
The cells no longer fit,
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Nayus
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Re: Mutations favoring extinction over intelligence

Post by Nayus » Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:39 pm

Actually, those are good points.

Specially the one that Programmable cells could very well be programmable from the begining and don't have and "on/off" button on that regard.

It would make it less intuitive to new players though (unless those options in the genome are locked at the begining like other settings. I'm starting to like this idea)
.
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Alast
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Re: Mutations favoring extinction over intelligence

Post by Alast » Sat Dec 23, 2017 7:11 pm

That's more about the list and probabilities of possible mutations than the functionality of radiation itself.

Yes, maybe the introduction of a programmable cell type through mutation into a genome could also cause a random programming of that cell and disregard "unprogrammed". That way the cell could also be kept new poayer friendly. I could see that.
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humon
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Re: Mutations favoring extinction over intelligence

Post by humon » Mon Dec 25, 2017 4:55 pm

Nayus wrote:It would make it less intuitive to new players though (unless those options in the genome are locked at the begining like other settings. I'm starting to like this idea)
.
I mean, mutation force unticks snap values. Maybe it should use the same for cell state programmation, by forcing it to become programmable once it mutates?
-First experiment of the Aspiring Apprentice-
Once a single split,
Now a grand gift,
Thanks to evolution,
A complete revolution.

The substrate being well lit,
The cells no longer fit,
One last tragic split:
"I quit!"

-the Lost Poet
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Nayus
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Re: Mutations favoring extinction over intelligence

Post by Nayus » Mon Dec 25, 2017 6:46 pm

Yeah that might be it. Good idea


Maybe it is already that way right?
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humon
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Re: Mutations favoring extinction over intelligence

Post by humon » Tue Dec 26, 2017 12:40 am

Nayus wrote:Yeah that might be it. Good idea


Maybe it is already that way right?
No, and this is the problem. Too many steps required.
1. Swimming cell becomes programmable
2. Swimming cell is programmed
3. Detector cell created
4. Detector cell programmed

4 steps of which several must happen at once.
If mutation randomised all of these on the creation of the cell, they would all spawn as programmed already and we would only have to worry about correct programming
-First experiment of the Aspiring Apprentice-
Once a single split,
Now a grand gift,
Thanks to evolution,
A complete revolution.

The substrate being well lit,
The cells no longer fit,
One last tragic split:
"I quit!"

-the Lost Poet
fungus3
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Re: Mutations favoring extinction over intelligence

Post by fungus3 » Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:21 pm

Then radiation should take into account programmed cell behaviors. Even if a smart swimmer is less energy-efficient than a basic swimmer, it should take into account if the organism is more accurate in gaining energy, because a basic swimmer would actually be worse if the environment makes it less likely to get food.

Radiation should not just take into account energy efficiency, but energy gain, as well.
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Alast
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Re: Mutations favoring extinction over intelligence

Post by Alast » Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:41 pm

That's simply not how natural selection works. No matter how much you want it.

If you smart with a smart swimmer in an environment favoring smart over dumb swimmers you will never see the smart swimmer successfully mutating into a dumb one because the smart one is more efficient here.

Vice versa on an environment favoring dumb swimmers.

I'd too love seeing smart organisms evolve from dumb ones. We've tried that pretty hard in the past. "Nature" just doesn't provide it on such small scale.
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Megathosto14
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Re: Mutations favoring extinction over intelligence

Post by Megathosto14 » Mon Jan 01, 2018 7:02 am

The only way I could think is to put smart swimmer with default stereocyte and myocyte. Then run the substrate with low amount of radiation.Next is to observe every few minutes and use the lab's tools like in Challenge: Breeding II to remove every dumb swimmer or swimmer that eradicate their myo and stereo, before they could take over the plate.

There'll be no swimmer without stereo and myocyte under the radiation. Wait until one of the swimmer's stereocyte sense the food and boost it or clean the plate and start a new one with this swimmer. Remove the wrongly evolved swimmer again and wait for myocyte next. Seems like this is the only way and will take a very long time. Don't know if this will work. It's almost impossible to get the matching myocyte and stereocyte.

Or we could start with four-celled-swimmer with three phagos, which increase the difficulty.
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K-man
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Re: Mutations favoring extinction over intelligence

Post by K-man » Tue Jan 02, 2018 2:46 pm

Petter wrote:"I DEMAND AN EXPLANATION", this is not very nice.

Evolution typically leads to an organism better suited to the environment (exactly what that means I'm not really sure, I guess more copies of offspring?). If a smart organism is not better suited, then it will become dumb. A substrate with high radiation makes organisms with complex designs prone to death by a small mutation, and they are thus not well suited. Make sure to evolve with tiny radiation and long time in that case.
That's why you can never make a smart organism using mutation.
I change interests, just like a stemocyte.
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