More modes

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Steeletto
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More modes

Post by Steeletto » Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:38 am

40 modes are great, but for complex colonial organisms they are not enough... For example if I want to do an ant colony I'd need at least 20 modes for each ant specialization (worker, warrior and queen)... Idk if it's possible but would be an important enhancement for my projects on this game (o)
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RedShift
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Re: More modes

Post by RedShift » Wed Jun 19, 2019 3:03 pm

I like this suggestion :)
Uhmmmm...
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K-man
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Re: More modes

Post by K-man » Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:30 am

more modes will complicate the game and make evolution way slower
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countingtls
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Re: More modes

Post by countingtls » Sun Jun 23, 2019 6:55 pm

K-man wrote:
Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:30 am
more modes will complicate the game and make evolution way slower
How is increasing number of total modes complicate the game? the number of cell types are still the same, while extra modes not been used is just there.

And how will it make evolution way slower? Calculating the probability the more modes existing the higher the chance that all cell types will have a chance to exist somewhere in the whole sequence, in fact right now with 40 modes, there is only about 10.5% probability all cell types exist in all 40 modes, if increase to 80 modes, the probably actually increases to like 83%. It might jump start the evolution of the first right mode to appear if they actually have a decent chance to exist in the first place.

And as the original post suggested our problem right now is that passing certain complexity, there are simply not enough modes for one species to have roles differentiation, or stages of life cycles to co-exist, and are mostly forced to separate them in unrelated lineages and have to resort to tricky unconventionally solutions to link them. Where it can all be solved by just giving more room in modes to incorporate them.
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CLmelonshark
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Re: More modes

Post by CLmelonshark » Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:59 am

Maybe they should also increase the max. cells in the timeline
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K-man
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Re: More modes

Post by K-man » Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:34 pm

Once this update came out with 40 instead of 20 modes, evolution became slower. That is because radiation operates on random modes, so with more modes, the radiation has a bigger chance of operating on unused modes.
"Place the devourocytes here..."
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countingtls
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Re: More modes

Post by countingtls » Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:20 pm

K-man wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:34 pm
Once this update came out with 40 instead of 20 modes, evolution became slower. That is because radiation operates on random modes, so with more modes, the radiation has a bigger chance of operating on unused modes.
Than just increase the mutation rate, so more modes will be hit.
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WhatTheSillyName
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Re: More modes

Post by WhatTheSillyName » Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:45 am

countingtls wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:20 pm
Than just increase the mutation rate, so more modes will be hit.
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countingtls
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Re: More modes

Post by countingtls » Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:43 am

WhatTheSillyName wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:45 am
countingtls wrote:
Tue Jul 02, 2019 6:20 pm
Than just increase the mutation rate, so more modes will be hit.
I have a legit question though, where does the magic 0.005 mutation rate number came from. From my own experiments of purely evolution creatures to fine tuning one point mutation, I find I can crank up to 0.030 and have no problem at all. With pure evolution, between 0.010 and 0.020 is a more acceptable rate I normally take, and I think I am not the first to post this. Even for fine tuning at higher than 0.010 is not an issue. I generally get reasonable fine tune results in less than 10000h, is this slow compare to it used to be?
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Petter
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Re: More modes

Post by Petter » Mon Nov 18, 2019 12:21 am

I think CL started with 10 modes, then increased to 25 after requests, then increased to 40 after requests, now there are requests for 80, and if I set it to 80 there will be requests for 160 :D The problem is that phones run out of memory, I increased in the past since phones have been getting more memory. I understand there are cases where more than 40 modes are useful, but those cases are not really the way CL is meant to be used. I suspect those organisms aren't really evolutionarily fit but more sort of decorative. If I increase modes to 80, then many users wouldnt be able to make as big substrates, and overall it would run slower since it has to shuffle more memory. I think 40 is a pretty good compromise, actually a bit higher than I would like. I feel like evolution worked better with fewer modes, more likely for useful life cycles to connect.

What a useful mutation rate is depends on how complex your organisms are and on how long their generations are, no single value is great for all situations.
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